What's the most important thing in doom maps!?

Anything that doesn't fit into other forums.

What's the most important thing?

You may select 1 option

6
20%
21
70%
3
10%
 
Total votes: 30
 

MasterOFDeath
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Post by MasterOFDeath »

I'm sure everyone here already knows my vote. :P

Detail does have an important spot though, as there are some maps out there that I will admit are downright ugly. Jokewads are an exception because they are supposed to be. :P But what is the point of a good looking map if all you are doing is staring at it? Throw in at least one imp, please!

Music can be pretty important too, but the cool part about music is that you don't have to listen to the map's music thanks to "Changemusic" :P
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Alter
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Post by Alter »

Well..... never rush your map or maybe map be worse then your good maps

include always custom music because it adds some atmosphere to it! If i would create any alone-marine on earth map then i could use 3DO Doom e1m8 track because it's atmospheric like whole soundtrack ;)
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Phobus
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Post by Phobus »

Oh, and as I quite fancy saying a lot here, I'll go for a load of stuff that I keep in mind when mapping (even if I'm not all that good a mapper, and my opinions mean little :P ):

Gameplay:
-When I put in the monsters for my map, I always think about two seperate things. The first is how hard I want the map to be (Scars of the Wounded Prey is overkill on Revenants for that precise reason). The second is the impact I want the monsters to have. If I want the player to be running back out of the room asap with his guns blazing, he'll get a revenant in one ear, and another monster right in front of him. If I want the player to be plowing through the level recklessly, he'll be running at imps and shotgunguys, placed thickly enough to provide a challenge, but not so thick as to slow him down.

-When I'm putting in health and weapons, I tend to go for a theme. I experimented with limited weaponry in Scars, and acheived something different from your standard SSG slaughter map, IMO. With health, I tend to pick between having the player be stocked with health, and therefore able to be reckless and having health tucked away in the odd corner, making the player move more casually and be observant. Of course this sort of thing needs tuning, and I've probably frustrated people by limiting their health too much, or drowning them with medipacks before now.

-A highly important gameplay feature is traps. Everybody knows this, but few people know how to use them effectively. I have no fear in saying that I'm definitely not one of those who do. Seems I either have no traps (Warpzone), or far too many (Scars). However, I do know from playing experience, and my own building experience, that in between those two polar opposite examples, there is a level of perfection with traps. You need to decide how tense and jumpy you want your player, how hard the level wants to be and how long the map is. A really long map will only drag on if you stick in a plethora of multi-pronged traps. A really short map would benefit from such traps, however, as they'd add considerable length to a room which would otherwise be quickly forgotton. With ACS, a trap doesn't need to be a monster warp in, or a wall dropping down. You could move a whole wall load of detail into the floor and ceilings (as Ive experimented with), or you could fire projectiles at the player HeXen style. There are many things possible, like crushers, moving walls, lowering cages, and much more that I probably haven't even thought of. It's all in imagination.

-Giving the player an aim is useful. You can easily have a map that requires a couple of switches to be found, a key to be foun, a key door to be opened and then an exit switch and, provided you've made it well, that'd work. But wouldn't it be much more interesting if the player had to disable a security mechanism, infiltrate a demonic compound and detonate the icon of sins brain from behind? Once again, it's imagination and effort. One day I'll make an interesting map, and I'd lay money on it faring better than my other efforts thus far.

Architecture:
-The key to making a level (as far as looks and gameplay area are concerned) would be making what you WANT it to be. If you're making a high tech lab, but it only has flat walls and a low light level, you've not really done it, have you? If there's pipes filled with god-knows-what; chemical equipment; desks; experiments; machinery; bright, sterile conditions and a corpse or two in the corner that could have been a scientist you're talking. If your castle bares no resemblance to anything but a stone corridor, you've got work to do. (I'm drawing examples from Scourge now, as these are all examples of what I wanted, but didn't do). It should have carpets, torches, livery and the look of a castle. Think, if it's demonic, you want it to look evil. Stick in holes with flesh slithering past, have the faces of a thousand souls burning in agony behind grates on the wall.

-Details look nice, but don't necessarily mean pixel perfect images and stuff drawn in sectors. Having a pipe or two in a corridor could well make the difference. Having a border around lighting fixtures, and an intersting combination of floors in a room could well make it look good enough on their own. Stick something interesting in the wall, and you've got yourself a good look.

-90 degrees is easy to make, but will rarely look as good. I'm guilty of having too many square corners in a level, but I never claimed to be any good :P Curve those square corners, and see the difference ;)

-Symmetry is my biggest issue. Pretty much every room in every map I've ever made has some symmetry. Might be the lighting fixtures are all the same, or the basic layout of the room, or that it's just a rectangle. Ideas I've had for sorting this out involve making the walls look different (so it's slightly less oppresive) with computer panels and lighting fixtures, and having irregular shaped rooms where possible. I'm also toying around with making the detailing on my ceilings and floors be a bit more random, but I've had little success.

And yeah, that'll do :P
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Doomed Soul
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Post by Doomed Soul »

\m/ WOOO!!! I wanna get that "Scars of the Wounded Prey" now. I must find! *Grovels before Google.com* Show me the way all mighty Google!
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Phobus
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Post by Phobus »

You'd have a lot more luck looking on my website, or searching for it in the /idgames archive.
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Alter
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Post by Alter »

Next lesson of my teachings ;) If your maps are getting worse than your previous maps then rest a day or week it can really help because then your mapping skill is refreshed ;) that's all i have for you in my head today
MasterOFDeath
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Post by MasterOFDeath »

alterworldruler wrote:Next lesson of my teachings ;) If your maps are getting worse than your previous maps then rest a day or week it can really help because then your mapping skill is refreshed ;) that's all i have for you in my head today
Very good advice actually, don't push yourself and give yourself breaks here and there. Even if I have a lot of good ideas floating in my head if I'm taking a break for a week or two I'm taking a damn break. I'll likely note down the idea if I think its good enough and when I pick the tools back up I'll work on it. And usually when I open up Doom Builder again after a break, it takes me a few minutes to get the hang of it again but I'm noticeably better than the last time I worked on anything. Its like "working in bursts". Instead of trying to do it hastily in a small amount of time and getting something half-ass, I do better just taking my time, taking breaks, and thinking.
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Vader
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Post by Vader »

Actually the 8 hours of work almost every day are enough of a break for me.
When I return from my job I'm usually quite motivated and full of ideas for the map I'm currently working on.
I agree that forcing yourself to do something is really bad though.
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Alter
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Post by Alter »

next lesson! about gameplay this time! it's freakin orb of science named "Balancing health!" :lol:

Well you finished your map, but there's testing awaiting you! If you notice that your map gives you nuts to beat it then place some health before dangerous points of the map or when you have low health after battle ;) it's easy task to do!
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Paul
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Post by Paul »

Actually the 8 hours of work almost every day are enough of a break for me.

Amen.
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Alter
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Post by Alter »

Well guys contribute more mapping tips here! it's useful thread for newbies :)
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Paul
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Post by Paul »

Allright.

When you're bored with your map, try making mapping interesting. Add stuff of interest or do stuff with the map you'd normally wouldn't do, like flip it, rearrange stuff, add some new areas, copy/paste from your other maps. Whatever, just make it interesting. Works for me. One thing KDIZD thought me is that you can all sorts of different operations, such as adding a truckload of sectors, to already heavily detailed, almost finished mapses.
I'd rather have as much fun I want from mapping, like bouncing a ball, rather than making it seem like a homework to win a reputation of a great mapper.

One of the painters I read an interview with said when painting he makes all sorts of wacky stuff to his works, such as freezing them, heating them, mixing various media, to produce visual extras. In art, creative expression and freedom of this expression is as important as the technical knowledge of knowing what you're doing. Prohibiting freedom of expression in any way will result in pondering what can I do to make stuff better, whereas it's your mentality that should get better. In my humble opinion.
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Phobus
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Post by Phobus »

I agree with Paul that mapping should not become a chore.

However, I find it all too easy to get stuck in making something boring. The best approach I've found sometimes is just to work away at an area, if you've gotten bored of it, just to make sure it's done. Either that, or you can start implememnting random ideas to add interest. I found that having an interesting idea for a room could get me through the whole mapping process for it much quicker.
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Paul
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Post by Paul »

Getting ideas can be pretty hard at times. Stuck without ideas, that's the real face of mapper's block in my opinion.

If I put architecture and it is very slapped on and I'd like to change it, I just screw it and save ideas for another location. Even if an area is bad, it still has something interesting in it. It's done, it's a part of the map.

Fuck perfectionism IMO, just make progress.

Take Resident Evil Gamecube. It may be uber beatiful, but it's a mere 3 hour gameplay. And Japanese RPGs are huge (because of huge guts) and not necessarily super pretty or advanced, but they are a bigger adventure and thus, more entertaining. Quantity of them maps is as important as quality in my opinion.
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Phobus
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Post by Phobus »

Hmm, this is true, though it's worth noting that (from my own experience, both as a player and a mapper) a short, sharp and to the point map that plays well is better than a massive sprawling map that has average gameplay at best.

I've had e-mails thanking me for the shorter wads I've made, in particular Scourge, but also Scars of the Wounded Prey. On the other hand, looking at the /idgames archive, Warpzones biggest failing is just how long it takes to play.

If an area is a real drag to make, and you've got no ideas whatsoever then there's only one thing between you and your choice of whether you make it or not. That thing is how vital it is to the map. If it's the only route forwards, then you've got to either do it, or make something different in it's place. If it's a push at non-linearity then you can do without it, more often than not.

Of course, if you can make a gigantic sprawling map with ace gameplay (ZDCMP1), then you have an instant winner :P
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