Bug Super Sonic Doom Intro

[nwbeeman]

In GZDOOM, the intro in the flying ship, the water is not drawn correctly.

WAD location: /levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/sonic.zip

Don't know if this is a result of a "bug" or "feature" of ZDOOM's software renderer

[Graf Zahl]

This WAD contains some awful and very crude rendering hacks. Don't expect me to fix them.

[nwbeeman]

This WAD contains some awful and very crude rendering hacks. Don't expect me to fix them.

I never said to fix it, i just report it, you dont get paid enough to do what you do. Me and the doom community thanks you for GZDoom

[wildweasel]

SSD is pretty much broken in GZDoom altogether. If you want to play it, software mode is the only way to go. Even if you did manage to get into the actual maps, the second zone would probably destroy your framerate because of all the skybox abuse (yet it seems to be fine without GL mode).

[nwbeeman]

SSD is pretty much broken in GZDoom altogether. If you want to play it, software mode is the only way to go. Even if you did manage to get into the actual maps, the second zone would probably destroy your framerate because of all the skybox abuse (yet it seems to be fine without GL mode).

Yeah, thats what i figured was up, i am now using software mode.

[Graf Zahl]

SSD is pretty much broken in GZDoom altogether. If you want to play it, software mode is the only way to go. Even if you did manage to get into the actual maps, the second zone would probably destroy your framerate because of all the skybox abuse (yet it seems to be fine without GL mode).

Abuse is the right word. And the frame rate drop was considerably worse before I added occlusion culling. But unlike the software renderer I simply can't do a pixel precise check for each skybox so I inevitably have to process more data than the software renderer. But even the software renderer does exhibit some performance loss in these areas.

In the end I modified the huts in this and some other levels to use 3D floors instead to play this WAD. But that was more work than really necessary.

And BTW, there are countless room over room hacks in this WAD and for nearly every single one I could find a spot where they break and HOM becomes visible - even with the software renderer.

[Jive]

In the "Credits" section of the text file:

Graf Zahl... for beta testing and feedback.
Graf Zahl (for the additional coding which made things like new monsters possible. I already had these in the project using the old BEX method, but Graf's new DECORATE method made things a lot easier and in most cases, better as well).

I guess that your beta testing work gave you the possibility to advise Stephen Clark (The Ultimate DooMer!) of all of those problems...
I'm not sure to have correctly understood what you wrote, but it seems to me that you worked and modified some parts. Thus, there is nothing about this work of yours in the text file. Or... what you made is the "new DECORATE method"?

My first comment: it's horribly boring. I'm not sure to play it more than what I already done: 6 minutes before dying because I was blocked by an invisible structure and monsters behind me
The comments on the Doomworld database's area are from "I highly dislike" to "The best ever".
Maybe it should be considered to be something else than Doom, but I want to play Doom.
It's Zdoom dedicated, and I think that it will stay like that. I wont spend my time to make it Gzdoom compatible. I guess that a lot of time would be necessary to make the adaptation (at least, to correct the problems and to debug it). What makes me being astonished is that you spent a huge amount of time to work on it...

[Graf Zahl]

SSD was released 8 months before the first GZDoom version. And yes, I told him of the problems with most of these things - but he thought they were cool and refused to change any of the known problem spots.

The WAD is definitely a love it/hate it matter. I thought the original design was a complete mess and due to the monster 'enhancements' I considered it unplayable. I told TUD all of this but as you can see he didn't change anything.

I did my own rework of this WAD, using 3D floors to replace the skybox hacks and changed a lot of other things, which mostly consisted of taming down the monsters to something reasonable and removing many of these highly annoying showdowns at the end of the levels. After that it got a lot better.

[Jive]

And I guess that he refused a release of this version of yours?
I will be very pleased to play it. If the man refused his approval on your changes (what a shame!!!), can you send me my PM a link where I can have it?
Thank you a lot by advance.

And thank you very much for your comments.

[Graf Zahl]

And I guess that he refused a release of this version of yours?

I never asked him as it was based on one of the later pre-release betas so for example skills are not implemented. This thing was just my private attempt to get more out of the levels for my personal enjoyment.

But as the text file states

Authors may NOT use any of these levels as a base for modification or re-use.
Be inspired by them, but don't copy them.

these remain private.

[Jive]

I highly dislike this kind of warning... It makes me think that the author think to be a VERY important man, and that his job will remain in the memory like a treasure not to be changed, because it's already fine like it is...

So, it will remain definitely a love it/hate it matter.

When I think that fabulous authors like Ray Schmitz (Turdburglar) are really offering their work:
"You can use this to steal textures or whatever, HELL!, its what I do!
Making your own textures takes to long"

No comment !!!

[wildweasel]

I recall a section of his text file for Fragport:

"You can't improve on perfection."

Confidence? Or arrogance?

[Jive]

I don't know what you recall, but it was not for Fragport (at least, for the updated version released on March 2004):

Code: Select all

==============================================================================
I acknowledge that these levels may not suit everyone's taste, but the aim of 
this episode was to create something new, different and groundbreaking, and I 
feel that has been achieved. I value some aspects of level design more than
others, so it won't be the best thing out there, but it will stand out. And
it's still a quality episode.

That's it. Thanks for choosing to play this episode, you won't be disappointed.
Hope you enjoy it.
...

================================================================================

There is here no confidence nor arrogance.
But there is the same warning:

Authors may NOT use any of these levels as a base for modification or re-use.
Be inspired by them, but don't copy them.

Well... Stephen Clark like to freeze his work... and he dislike the idea to improve anything of his work: it's not perfect, but it will stay like it is.
Very strange idea, indeed !

Anyway, we have to respect his volunty, even if we disagree.

[wildweasel]

The text file from the version on idgames is a different story:

Code: Select all

Authors may NOT use any of these levels as a base for other levels. 
There's no point in doing that anyway, 'cos you can't improve on perfection.

[Jive]

11/01/02 ? This an outdated version of the text file.
I don't know why Doomworld is hosting such an outdated version of the text file on its database area, but the file offered for download is correct: dated March 26, 2004 (the first release is dated 14th December 2001)
Doomwadstation.com gives us the correct text file... Lol...

Updated March 2004 with: an extra patch, which adds weapons/ammo to the start
of maps 29 and 30 for the purposes of demo recording. One or two other tweaks
for demo friendliness too.